Do Vests and Shorts mix?

Probably shouldn't even put this here.. but ... F' it.  After all the info flow on it, and mixed answers, I'm putting it here for historical reasons.

Now for most, the obvious answer is NO!   And for the most part, I agree.  Whether it's Texas or any other state or country, I personally feel that an FM or Support member should NOT wear shorts or pajama pants or Leggin's with a Vest while on a bike or at a Meeting or out n' about in Public. Simple as that.  Well, few weeks ago we were at Nationals and  I saw a lot of shit.  Mainly, folks were caging to the main spot(s) and wearing a vest with shorts and other shit to have fun and/or look "cool."  At some level, I get it... but ... still I have an issue with it.  I've wrote here before how I feel it's wrong to even wear a vest to a meeting that one caged to. That Vest should be worn on a Motorcycle not in a Cage.  Wear your soft colors if you don't want to ride.  I'm not the only one that feels that way, but there is no protocol or By Laws that say otherwise; so it's just my personal opinion.

Lucy in Soft Colors

Now, that all being said....  back to the shorts.  I've been riding for about forty years, and in the early days on rice burners, wore shorts often in the summer.  Didn't say it was smart; just what we did. Over the last twenty years while down on the coast or certain motorcycle rally's during the summer months, wore shorts. No vests, just dressed for the heat, not for the slide.  Again, didn't say it was smart; just what we did.  You know .. I still do sometimes; got some great motorcycle Christmas pics!.  For those that think ATGATT (go look it up if you don't know what that means); whatever.  For those that can't grasp riding in shorts; whatever.  Yes I've got the burns on my legs from exhaust systems .. lots of them ... as badges of stup*** .. I meant... honor.  Now, the point of this post.

Was friggn' HOT that week

Lucy had on a pair of shorts and cowboy boots at Nationals, and at our room jokingly put on her vest and said something to the effect of "what do you think?"  I said she looked HOT (fact) and could pull it off. Then we joked about 'was it allowed?' .  Well, I've heard certain things about Texas and this subject over the years, so told her to go 'ask.'.   She did.  Wasn't a big deal .. but .. she asked. "Can we wear shorts with a vest weather it’s meeting  or on the bike?" followed by "  I’m seeing hundreds at nationals Doing exactly this hence the question."  Now, this is where I thought it got interesting and why I pushed the subject. The answers she received.  "I was informed that we were not supposed to wear shorts with our vests" was first response. From another, "It’s a rule from the dominant club in The DFW area. Clubs here may not have an issue with it. "   (later on someone will say Dominant in DFW doesn't care, but the point is the second part which I agree with .. clubs in my area may not care).  One that set me on my path was "Sadly no. This is a Texas MC no no. It was put out a few years ago that no vests with shorts at all. Doesn't matter if caging or on a bike. Got to wear long pants with vests."   Actually what was said was don't do it in El Paso, Galveston and South Padre and our major events.   Now, one would think this would be a dead subject; Lucy asked me to drop it.  But .. here's my issue.  What is the no BS answer?  What is our Texas wide 'rule?' Is there one?

So, go out to a non official area that many frequent and pose the question. Again, I personally do NOT agree with FMs going down this path... to me it was an 'Aux" question.. ...   Now here is the missing piece of info from my side and no way in Hell I was going to post it.  I personally believe my wife looks better in Shorts and in a Vest than a vast amount of other Aux's with their jeans on. Hell, more professional even.  I've seen some crazy shit ... but .. that's just personal opinion. This is supposed to be more specific of course... but ... hey .. this is why I pushed it; simple as that.

My question:

"Vest worn with Shorts...   I've seen this come up twice ....   but both had to do with State in Galveston and South  Padre.. .and I'm sure El Paso may be an issue...   so here it goes for clarification.  I asked the question internally within our chapter but didn't find the definitive answer I was looking for.    Also know as I ask this question it's actually in reference to my wife, not myself...  I'd just wear a Tee with the Skully on the back if that's what I wanted to do ...

Is there a Policy within TX 23 against a member wearing shorts with their Vests on?  I personally don't have a problem with our spouses (ex. Aux) on the back of the bike on a hot summer day doing this ... especially .. if they can 'pull it off' .    I'm sure there are going to be some off the wall comments here, but ..... saw some crazy shit at Nationals so this is legit and calm in comparison to that ...... I'm not talking FMs wearing Ranger Panties rolling down the road in a group ride here.... 

I've searched on emails....   etc .. .even FB.. and never seen an actual policy on this ... just opinions"

Person #1 (B')

"Respectfully it is not a rule in Texas. Your state rep probably has the book answer but when I was the state rep we frowned about it but it was determined by the local dominant in your area.

In Galveston and El Paso we were told flat out by the dominant absolutely no shorts and vest or flip flops.

"XXX" has the current answer but this was not a texas wide policy."

Yep ....  this is exactly why I asked the question!

Person #3 (S')

"We live in Texas - our dominate does not allow it."

Again ... this is sort of why I asked the question ... but ...   back to the first person. This sounded to be specific to certain areas .  I don't buy into this answer .. it's too general

Person #4 (K')

"Members of Texas, this is not a policy, this is a protocol issue. Every instance where the state has put down guidance on not allowing shorts with vest is a local protocol with the MC community. We are allowed to fly our patch because the MC community allows it to happen. Before every state event since 2016 I have reached out to the host chapter SAA and asked one question every single time, "are shorts and vest allowed in your area" if the answer is no that is a problem here then the guidance for every member that is in the area is told to not wear shorts and vest. If the answer is "no that is not an issue in this area" the guidance is wear em if you want. Nationals in Kentucky was in an area that it was not an issue. As we travel around our chapters we must understand we are in someone else's house and if we cause an issue the host chapter has to deal the after effects. It's as simple as that. A protocol violation like that can have serious effects on the chapter that is the host for all of us. I brief this every year at State, SCOM and every time I am anywhere. It's not about telling folks we don't like shorts and vests, it's about the safety and welfare of the 1650 members in Texas. If folks have any questions please just ask. I have corrected folks from every state and position in this organization. Our National President came to a State Meeting and he was sporting shorts and vest...he saw me...I simply said, Mutt, this area does not allow shorts and vest, he went and changed and it was over with. It's all about respecting our CVMA family when we are in their house and not leaving issues for them to fix.

Texas is very unique in that aspect. With the influx of different MCs in different areas the lines get blurry. This is exactly why we stand behind the local protocol guidance instead of a blanket policy. We are not an MC but different rules for different locations. Other states do what they do, Texas is it's own animal completely and we need to be flexible in the areas we operate in. You have to remember we are not in that power struggle with the MCs in Texas but we remain neutral to all of them."

Ultra Professional and correct answer.  Period.   But, still in the overall conversation there were over 60 comments (probably ten of those were mine) with opinions and 'facts' all over the map...  some folks appeared to get emotional over it.  Others, it was apparent didn't understand my question.   At one point I said I've seen folks with shorts, flip flops and soft colors at meetings and that looks way more unprofessional.  I was referring to cagers not riders, but even that one took a sideways spin on the conversation.

Person "JL"

"I've only been in TX 5 years so forgive the ignorance here...BUT, I have seen members do this everywhere. It's been clarified the CVMA doesn't have a policy on this. Where I see the confusion within the membership is, people say the dominant says no. If that's the case shouldn't TX CVMA say no? I have never seen a brief, an email, an SOP, nor any statement from the dominant saying no, let alone the TX CVMA. Correct me if there is something out there. I'll make sure my people see it. I see it said that it's protocol, i get that. How can there be consistency when people "say" it's not allowed. In my presence the question has been brought up twice with the dominant. Both times, similar answers...we don't give a f#$% if your people wear shorts or kilts, you don't wear a 3 piece patch. Personally, I see the answers all over the place and I can get the confusion with members. States should put it out in writing in my opinion if there is an issue for folks that may not know or understand. Then it can't be questioned. Again...just my opinion."

Now this dude, I agree with 100% and actually what I was trying to get out of all of this ...

Now, the smoke has cleared.  Did I accomplish anything? Not in the big picture; I'd actually hoped to. For me personally, it raised yet more questions.  WHOM is the Dominant in TX?  I think we all know but ... nobody says the word out loud.  And does the Dominant have the say in every county of Texas or is that up to other MCs that 'live there'?  What about the turf wars many of us are aware of .. does that mean we have 'multiple dominants' depending what city you live in or near?  This is way too much info for this post...but ...   one that I'm curious about now.  I thought it my area we had a diff' Dominant that the folks in say Galveston county, but I honestly don't know.  Guessing that's a question for another day.

Headed to a meeting this Saturday ... really tempted to ride in with shorts and soft colors and tennis shoes.  Maybe to make a point.  Maybe to be an asshole. It's going to be upwards of 110 deg.  My luck I'd get a third degree burn on my right calf and folks would be like "we told you!"   Or same ass wipe cager forces me off the road and I'll hear " WE TOLD YOU!"   We'll see .....